On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
> Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061934230.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
> >
> >> Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> >> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061721210.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
> >> >> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061514330.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Then I would owe Bill Gates money. That's not the same as being
> >> >> >> enslaved.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> To recap, Guilherme claimed that what matters is a person's
> >> >> >> absolute level of wealth, and therefore the poor will be
> >> >> >> enslaved by the rich. I pointed out that what matters is not
> >> >> >> his level of wealth, but rather WHAT HE HAS TO GAIN in the
> >> >> >> particular case, because THAT is what determines how hard he is
> >> >> >> willing to fight and therefore his chances of winning the
> >> >> >> dispute. Second, I pointed out that a slave has more to gain
> >> >> >> from his freedom than a master has to gain from his
> >> >> >> enslavement.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> So Guilherme's point is refuted.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > i'm arguing what one has to gain, but also including what
> >> >> > one can
> >> >> > afford. i'd have a lot to gain from a medical degree, but i
> >> >> > can't really afford to take one now. the point is not refuted.
> >> >>
> >> >> Borrow.
> >> >>
> >> > well. firstly,i can't borrow time. money, i can borrow to go
> >> > to
> >> > school -- subsidized govt loans help, don't know if i have good
> >> > enough credit to get private loans to cover the rest. i wonder
> >> > what kind of credit rating a slave has.
> >>
> >> What are you talking about? I was talking about a free person
> >> preventing himself from being enslaved.
> >
> > i thought the discussion was whether slavery can exist in
> > anarcho-capitalism.
>
> That is the general discussion. But this divides into specific
> discussions: suppose there is no slavery, then can slavery arise. And:
> suppose there is slavery, then can slavery cease.
i'd say it certainly can for both. so we see that slavery is not
incompatible with anarcho-capitalism.
>
> >> You want to talk about slaves escaping and slave revolts and free
> >> people helping slaves? That's actually happened. Famous cases were
> >> put down by states. Repeat, by states. Repeat, by states. By states.
> >> Sinking in? Spartacus, John Brown, Nat Turner.
> >
> > i know states have helped to protect property in the form of
> > slaves. thats not at debate.
>
> But it is central to the debate. In the real world, people defend their
> own property. The state does not help but rather hinders them. In
> contrast, people are unable to maintain slavery privately and need the
> help of the state.
um. no you haven't said that. you've said that states help to
catch runaway slaves. has slavery existed in tribal situations without
states?
-gr
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