Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061934230.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
>
>> Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061721210.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
>> >
>> >> Guilherme <groschke@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in
>> >> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0307061514330.12116-100000@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >>
>> >> > On Sun, 6 Jul 2003, Constantinople wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Then I would owe Bill Gates money. That's not the same as being
>> >> >> enslaved.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> To recap, Guilherme claimed that what matters is a person's
>> >> >> absolute level of wealth, and therefore the poor will be
>> >> >> enslaved by the rich. I pointed out that what matters is not
>> >> >> his level of wealth, but rather WHAT HE HAS TO GAIN in the
>> >> >> particular case, because THAT is what determines how hard he is
>> >> >> willing to fight and therefore his chances of winning the
>> >> >> dispute. Second, I pointed out that a slave has more to gain
>> >> >> from his freedom than a master has to gain from his
>> >> >> enslavement.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So Guilherme's point is refuted.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > i'm arguing what one has to gain, but also including what
>> >> > one can
>> >> > afford. i'd have a lot to gain from a medical degree, but i
>> >> > can't really afford to take one now. the point is not refuted.
>> >>
>> >> Borrow.
>> >>
>> > well. firstly,i can't borrow time. money, i can borrow to go
>> > to
>> > school -- subsidized govt loans help, don't know if i have good
>> > enough credit to get private loans to cover the rest. i wonder
>> > what kind of credit rating a slave has.
>>
>> What are you talking about? I was talking about a free person
>> preventing himself from being enslaved.
>
> i thought the discussion was whether slavery can exist in
> anarcho-capitalism.
That is the general discussion. But this divides into specific
discussions: suppose there is no slavery, then can slavery arise. And:
suppose there is slavery, then can slavery cease.
>> You want to talk about slaves escaping and slave revolts and free
>> people helping slaves? That's actually happened. Famous cases were
>> put down by states. Repeat, by states. Repeat, by states. By states.
>> Sinking in? Spartacus, John Brown, Nat Turner.
>
> i know states have helped to protect property in the form of
> slaves. thats not at debate.
But it is central to the debate. In the real world, people defend their
own property. The state does not help but rather hinders them. In
contrast, people are unable to maintain slavery privately and need the
help of the state.
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